My main knowledge base, due to having trodden that path, is undergraduate (UG) entry into medicine in New South Wales. So if you'd like more information about Graduate (GD) Medicine entry, UG entry in other states, or pretty much anything else, I'd like to point you to an excellent forum: Medical Students Online (MSO)
So there are currently (as of 2009), four universities that offer entry straight from high school, or not having completed a degree yet. I'll go through them in order of how much knowledge I know about them, from least to most.
~ University of Sydney - USyd doesn't actually offer an UG Medicine degree, but they do offer Provisional entry (with a total length of 7 years spent in university) into their Graduate program for school-leavers. What this means is that they offer you guaranteed entry into their Graduate Medical program provided that you:
(a) Do extremely well in your final year exams. For NSW/ACT students, USyd generally only considers those who score 99.95 ATAR. This means you need to beat pretty much everyone in your state that year to even be considered entry. The only exception to this is the combined Music/MBBS program, which requires 99.5 ATAR but also a stellar performance in Music.
(b) Do well enough in their interview process (an MMI); anecdotally, the interview doesn't count for much and is a formality, but it still needs to be cleared. MMI - Multiple Mini Interviews - are essentially, multiple mini interviews (who would've guessed); anywhere from 8-10 stations consisting of a particular scenario or theme (e.g. testing empathy), in which you are given ~8-10 minutes of time to answer. They are generally quite hard to prepare for, or at least, harder than the traditional interview style; probably because they can test a large range of scenarios/themes. Don't worry though; your ability to talk for 8 minutes continuously is not tested - if you haven't answered a part of the scenario that they want you to answer, usually they provide you with prompts in the form of additional questions. Also, using all your time is not necessarily a good indicator of how well you did; conversely, finishing early isn't one, either.
(c) Be ready to do another degree other than Medicine for the first 3 years such as Arts/Sciences, and do well enough (credit average), to enter the actual Medicine course (which is 4 years in length).
They do not accept UMAT, although they do accept GAMSAT for entry into medicine the 'normal' way (Graduate entry).
~University of Newcastle/New England - Joint Medical Program (JMP) - This is a new program with a medically new university (UNE, or University of New England) partnered with a more established one (UNCLE, or University of Newcastle), which has been around, teaching medicine, for decades. The JMP has about 160 places, 60 in New England and 100 in Newcastle, and has a unique admissions process, by which they:
(a) Generally ignore final year high school results; they do require over 93.8 for urban applicants, but afterwards do not use it in their criteria,
(b) Use the UMAT result as a threshold value, not to be counted in admissions criteria; so UMAT is used by itself to rank applicants, and the top 800 or so applicants are offered an interview. After this, there is no discrimination in UMAT scores. Which leads to:
(c) The interview. With an approximately 1-in-6 or so chance at this stage, entry into JMP is especially unique because ONLY the interview score counts towards entrance. The interview is 100% weighted in the admissions criteria, and thus, it's a make-it-or-break-it situation.
Due to this, it's highly recommended that you should apply elsewhere in addition to the JMP scheme, although its generally advised to apply to as many universities as you possibly can. The JMP takes 5 years to graduate from.
~University of New South Wales - The University of NSW (UNSW) is the major established university for undergraduate medicine in Sydney, as USyd's program is Graduate Entry, whilst the JMP is outside Sydney. Their course was revamped in 2005, and they offer the most balanced of entry criteria, versus the other universities. Admission consists of:
(a) Even weighting of final year secondary school marks (ATAR), UMAT score and Interview (two interviewers to an interviewee, generally lasting from half-hour to an hour) process - i.e. each one contributes to a third of your selection score. However, UNSW is generally the most competitive university for UG medicine in NSW since it is the only one in Sydney that is well-established, whilst not being entirely exclusive to the elite of the elite (USyd's Provisional Entry program).
(b) They have an alternate entry scheme via their own Medical Science degree; essentially, those who do not make it into Medicine can take a year of Medical Science at UNSW, and the top nth percent (places reserved are in the single digits) enter the Medicine course with Advanced Standing (i.e. You don't start at Year 1). Forewarning: Medical Science is generally regarded as a degree with no real post-graduate future, apart from entering Medicine. In addition, Medical Science at UNSW is extremely competitive due to the amount of candidates wishing to enter Medicine through this stream.
(c) The cohorts at University of NSW are, in general, extremely academically gifted. Median UAIs, due to the counting of ATAR in the selection process, are firmly in the 99+ range. UNSW does offer EAS and rural consideration; so apply for those if they apply to you.
(d) The UNSW course is 6 years in length, though this includes a Research Project which is completed in one year. Depending on the situation, you can also negotiate for a combined degree at UNSW, such as Arts/Medicine, for 7 years.
~University of Western Sydney - UWS' Medical School is the newest of all medical schools in New South Wales; the first cohort was accepted in 2007, which is a year before the JMP scheme's first cohort. Admissions into UWS's Medical program is as follows:
(a) A minimum ATAR of 95, which is used as a threshold, much like the JMP process; there is no further discrimination of ATAR scores. Despite this, the median ATAR hovers around the 99 mark.
(b) A UMAT score which contributes to a third of the admissions criteria; it is currently speculated that UWS has placed a weighting on Sections 1 and 2 of the UMAT. Because UWS is the other university in Sydney that offers Medicine, in addition to not counting the ATAR of students, the UMAT score required for entry is generally amongst the highest compared to the JMP and UNSW (UNSW's minimum UMAT depends on your UAI, but median statistics generally point towards an even UMAT score for entrance into either university).
(c) An interview (MMI style, approximately 10 stations) that counts for two-thirds of the selection criteria.
(d) UWS places an emphasis on attracting local students, and as such, students living in the Greater Western Sydney region require 93 ATAR and a lowered UMAT score to receive an interview offer. However, there is no advantage given at the interview stage. UWS also considers Indigenous applicants separately.
(e) UWS has an alternate entry scheme, much like UNSW; entry into Medicine can be achieved by first completing a year of Advanced Science, ranking in the top nth or so positions (again, places reserved are in the single digits), scoring over 50% percentile in the UMAT, and sitting the interview process. Those who enter via this method are given no preference in the interview process, and do not enter the Medicine degree with Advanced Standing.
(f) UWS reserves about 30 places out of the ~120 local spots offered for the Late Round in UAC Offer rounds. The given reason is that those who take 2nd round interviews have to be reserved places so as to not disadvantage them. This however, means that the chance for entry into UWS in the Late and other rounds are substantial, and this, to a certain extent, can be applied to all universities.
The nature of the competitiveness of entry into Medicine means that many who are extremely keen apply interstate to as many universities as possible; and many successful applicants do also receive multiple offers from other universities, to which they must turn down. This leads to the extremely convoluted entrance sequence, whereby offers can be made independently of offer rounds and after the Final Rounds have been announced. Anecdotally, there have been students offered a place in the days before the course was to begin, and this is the case for all universities in Australia.
Post Edited: 03/09/09 - Changed to reflect UAI/TER/ENTER -> ATAR, USyd information
Post Edited: 08/12/09 - Changed a mistake in the JMP briefing, referring to final year "university" results, which should be "high school". Added a brief description of MMI in USyd's section (since it's the first one)
Thursday, April 30, 2009
Entrance in Medical School in Australia and NSW
Being a rather excited Year 12, I had researched most of the pathways to enter medical school in Australia. However, most of my research was limited when I realised that jetting all around Australia to attend interviews was a rather costly enterprise to undertake, so I focused on my home state, New South Wales.
As an aside, New Zealand medical schools are also considered Australian in terms of Australians being treated as locals, and vice versa.
So there are two types of medical degrees, undergraduate (does not require a previous degree) and graduate (does require a previous completed degree). I'll abbreviate undergraduate as UG, and graduate as GD from now on.
UG Medical degrees are starting to die out in Australia, which could be influenced by the American style of medical school entry, which is similar to GD Medical degrees - doing a degree first (in America you can enter Pre-Med which provides the scientific basis of Medicine in a degree). UG degrees are either 5 or 6 years in length, and most in Australia now incorporate clinical or hospital exposure from very early on (first few weeks).
GD Medical degrees are generally 4 years in length, and the degree you must do prior to entry into GD Medicine can be completely unrelated to Medicine.
There are 3 main obstacles you have to overcome for entry into a medical degree:
~ University Entrance score (UAI/ENTER/TER/etc.) from final year secondary school exams for UG Medicine, or GPA/WAM/University degree score from your previous degree, for GD Medicine. Take note that many UG Medical Schools will consider your GPA/WAM if you have done a year of tertiary study, generally in combination with your final secondary school score.
~ UMAT (Undergraduate Medicine Admissions Test) is a prerequisite into entry in all UG Medical degrees in Australia, with the exception of James Cook University in Queensland, and University of Sydney's Provisional Entry into their GD program. The UMAT can be likened to an IQ and EQ (Emotional Quotient) test; which test, in 3 separate sections, your ability in reasoning, empathy, and spatial pattern/shape recognising. The graduate version of this is the GAMSAT, which is, anecdotally, more difficult than the UMAT.
~ The interview process vastly differs across all universities. The one university that does not use interviews in their selection process is the University of Queensland for their Combined medicine degree. The interview is generally conducted in one of two formats; MMI (Multiple Mini Interviews), in which you take multiple separate interviews with a different interviewer each time, or a standard interview with either a panel or a person.
In New South Wales, the current universities (as of 2009) that have a Medical School are:
UG: University of NSW, University of Western Sydney, University of Newcastle/New England (Joint Medical Program), University of Sydney (Provisional Entry into their GD program)
GD: University of Sydney, University of Woollongong, Australian National University (actually in the Australian Capital Territory (ACT))
Edit: University of Notre Dame has a GD program at it's Sydney campus (the university was originally based in WA)
As an aside, New Zealand medical schools are also considered Australian in terms of Australians being treated as locals, and vice versa.
So there are two types of medical degrees, undergraduate (does not require a previous degree) and graduate (does require a previous completed degree). I'll abbreviate undergraduate as UG, and graduate as GD from now on.
UG Medical degrees are starting to die out in Australia, which could be influenced by the American style of medical school entry, which is similar to GD Medical degrees - doing a degree first (in America you can enter Pre-Med which provides the scientific basis of Medicine in a degree). UG degrees are either 5 or 6 years in length, and most in Australia now incorporate clinical or hospital exposure from very early on (first few weeks).
GD Medical degrees are generally 4 years in length, and the degree you must do prior to entry into GD Medicine can be completely unrelated to Medicine.
There are 3 main obstacles you have to overcome for entry into a medical degree:
~ University Entrance score (UAI/ENTER/TER/etc.) from final year secondary school exams for UG Medicine, or GPA/WAM/University degree score from your previous degree, for GD Medicine. Take note that many UG Medical Schools will consider your GPA/WAM if you have done a year of tertiary study, generally in combination with your final secondary school score.
~ UMAT (Undergraduate Medicine Admissions Test) is a prerequisite into entry in all UG Medical degrees in Australia, with the exception of James Cook University in Queensland, and University of Sydney's Provisional Entry into their GD program. The UMAT can be likened to an IQ and EQ (Emotional Quotient) test; which test, in 3 separate sections, your ability in reasoning, empathy, and spatial pattern/shape recognising. The graduate version of this is the GAMSAT, which is, anecdotally, more difficult than the UMAT.
~ The interview process vastly differs across all universities. The one university that does not use interviews in their selection process is the University of Queensland for their Combined medicine degree. The interview is generally conducted in one of two formats; MMI (Multiple Mini Interviews), in which you take multiple separate interviews with a different interviewer each time, or a standard interview with either a panel or a person.
In New South Wales, the current universities (as of 2009) that have a Medical School are:
UG: University of NSW, University of Western Sydney, University of Newcastle/New England (Joint Medical Program), University of Sydney (Provisional Entry into their GD program)
GD: University of Sydney, University of Woollongong, Australian National University (actually in the Australian Capital Territory (ACT))
Edit: University of Notre Dame has a GD program at it's Sydney campus (the university was originally based in WA)
So how do I begin...
My previous blogs have all fallen in a state of disrepair, forgotten and alone in the little corners of the vast cyberspace. So here I go, restarting afresh, anew, and hoping this will not end up disused.
A little introduction is necessary: My name's Luke, and I'm a medical student at the University of Western Sydney (UWS). I, if not undertaking the Bachelor of Medical Research or repeating a year, will graduate in 2013, as the MBBS degree at UWS is 5 years in length. I decided to start this blog on a spur-of-the-moment, hopefully sharing my experience as a medical student here in Australia. To understand where my opinion henceforth is based upon, heres a little of my background:
~ I'm of Chinese descent, though my parents were born in Malaysia and I was born very locally (Westmead Hospital in Sydney, NSW, Australia) and raised my whole life in Australia. As such, I consider myself pretty Australian, though I am pretty hopeless at sports, contrary to the stereotype. I come from a low-middle class background, and I'm the first of my immediate family to go to university.
~ I entered medical school in Australia by a rather typified method: through OC Class, Selective School, HSC marks, UMAT, and an interview. I entered med school straight out of high school, and though there are reasons not to do so, I don't regret it at all.
~ Culturally, the pressure to achieve academically, for me, was fairly high, which is probably not unlike most medical students in Australia. However I procrastinated a lot, also not unlike most medical students in Australia; so it's kind of ironic to enter a career where maintaining academic effort is of extremely vital importance.
~ I consider myself EXTREMELY blessed to have entered medical school in my first attempt, straight from high school. My procrastination was the bane of my parents and as a result I did not score a 99, or even 98+ UAI (seen by many as a given for medicine in Australia), I was a Greater Western Sydney student and thus had local advantages given by UWS to encourage local students, I was only offered my spot in the Late Round of UAC Offers (University entrance offers), and it was a Bonded spot (requires a contractual obligation to spend 5 years after specialisation, working in a District of Workplace Shortage - i.e. where there are not enough doctors of your speciality). So I guess this can give some of you hope in regards to medical school entry.
~ I was and still am really keen on Medicine. Along with the altruistic nature of the profession, Medicine ticked my boxes because it was a secure job with a decent pay, was extremely broad and yet you could find a speciality that could occupy your entire life, was one of the few occupations where there is continuous learning and expansion of your knowledge, made my parents quite happy, was a field where I had an interest in (my other interest is Computer Science), and allowed the undertaking of responsibility of lives but also the privilege of being able to treat patients and play a significant role in their lives. In exchange, I considered the rather long hours, lengthy time to finish training and specialising in comparison to other courses, high stress and emotional situations, and a huge amount of (expected) study for the rest of my life, but they didn't deter my decision. It is important to see whether another career/degree suits you better, although in my case I'm overwhelmingly happy with my decision. This will hopefully not change as I progress through the registrar years, and I hope not to become a disillusioned junior doc in the future.
~ I keep an open mind towards anything and everything, including country practice, all types of specialities, conference attendance, anything. So I will hopefully cover a large spectrum of the medical student experience in Australia and in particular my university.
That's probably enough introductory information to show where I''m coming from, so I'll leave it at that. I hope this blog will have two purposes: firstly, to share what I have gathered through personal research and communication, and secondly as something to look back on when I am old and grey. So thank you for dropping by!
A little introduction is necessary: My name's Luke, and I'm a medical student at the University of Western Sydney (UWS). I, if not undertaking the Bachelor of Medical Research or repeating a year, will graduate in 2013, as the MBBS degree at UWS is 5 years in length. I decided to start this blog on a spur-of-the-moment, hopefully sharing my experience as a medical student here in Australia. To understand where my opinion henceforth is based upon, heres a little of my background:
~ I'm of Chinese descent, though my parents were born in Malaysia and I was born very locally (Westmead Hospital in Sydney, NSW, Australia) and raised my whole life in Australia. As such, I consider myself pretty Australian, though I am pretty hopeless at sports, contrary to the stereotype. I come from a low-middle class background, and I'm the first of my immediate family to go to university.
~ I entered medical school in Australia by a rather typified method: through OC Class, Selective School, HSC marks, UMAT, and an interview. I entered med school straight out of high school, and though there are reasons not to do so, I don't regret it at all.
~ Culturally, the pressure to achieve academically, for me, was fairly high, which is probably not unlike most medical students in Australia. However I procrastinated a lot, also not unlike most medical students in Australia; so it's kind of ironic to enter a career where maintaining academic effort is of extremely vital importance.
~ I consider myself EXTREMELY blessed to have entered medical school in my first attempt, straight from high school. My procrastination was the bane of my parents and as a result I did not score a 99, or even 98+ UAI (seen by many as a given for medicine in Australia), I was a Greater Western Sydney student and thus had local advantages given by UWS to encourage local students, I was only offered my spot in the Late Round of UAC Offers (University entrance offers), and it was a Bonded spot (requires a contractual obligation to spend 5 years after specialisation, working in a District of Workplace Shortage - i.e. where there are not enough doctors of your speciality). So I guess this can give some of you hope in regards to medical school entry.
~ I was and still am really keen on Medicine. Along with the altruistic nature of the profession, Medicine ticked my boxes because it was a secure job with a decent pay, was extremely broad and yet you could find a speciality that could occupy your entire life, was one of the few occupations where there is continuous learning and expansion of your knowledge, made my parents quite happy, was a field where I had an interest in (my other interest is Computer Science), and allowed the undertaking of responsibility of lives but also the privilege of being able to treat patients and play a significant role in their lives. In exchange, I considered the rather long hours, lengthy time to finish training and specialising in comparison to other courses, high stress and emotional situations, and a huge amount of (expected) study for the rest of my life, but they didn't deter my decision. It is important to see whether another career/degree suits you better, although in my case I'm overwhelmingly happy with my decision. This will hopefully not change as I progress through the registrar years, and I hope not to become a disillusioned junior doc in the future.
~ I keep an open mind towards anything and everything, including country practice, all types of specialities, conference attendance, anything. So I will hopefully cover a large spectrum of the medical student experience in Australia and in particular my university.
That's probably enough introductory information to show where I''m coming from, so I'll leave it at that. I hope this blog will have two purposes: firstly, to share what I have gathered through personal research and communication, and secondly as something to look back on when I am old and grey. So thank you for dropping by!
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